Welcome to the Sword of Sure podcast. Where doubt looms, fear whispers, and the only way forward is through. I'm Samar Carbo and if you've ever felt like you're just sort of sure about what you're doing, you're not alone. This is where we face the uncertainty. Push past the hesitation and keep going anyway way. So take a breath, step in, and let's move forward together. Hello and welcome to the Sort of Shore podcast. As you may have guessed from the beginning, my name is Samar Carbo and I am here to talk to you about our new friend, Tony Martinetti. He is awesome and he came by to share some wisdom with the rest of us about his stupendous podcast Nonprofit Radio with Tony Martinetti. But before we get to that, if you have a story to share of self doubt or imposter syndrome, shoot me an email at sort of surepodmail.com let's have a listen.

I'm Tony Martinetti. I do planned giving, fundraising consulting. I host the podcast Tony Martinetti Nonprofit Radio.

So can you tell me a little bit about nonprofit radio? I mean, how'd you get started?

I wanted to do something for nonprofits that you didn't have to pay me for. You have to pay me if you want me to do claimed giving fundraising consulting for you. So in 2010, it's actually July of 2010, so we'll be coming up on an anniversary show, which I'll mention in a minute. In July of 2010, I began podcasting. It was sort of an emerging form and it's a way of giving back to nonprofits. It's free, it'll always be free. And I pick the brains of experts for the benefit of professionals in small and mid sized nonprofits. This July will be our 750th show.

Wow, 750. And that is amazing. So obviously you did a whole bunch of training, more than for most things to become a lawyer. And then you switched to planned giving. What was that switch like?

There was a lot of learning. One of the skills that you acquire in law school and practicing law, even though I only did it for two years, but you still hone. This school is hone. This skill is learning new areas. You know, a lawyer can be a generalist and you might be dealing with a bankruptcy one day and maybe a medical malpractice issue the next day. And even within any practice field, practice area, there's always learning going on. So learning plans, giving, fundraising, it took many hours. I went to some courses. I went to if you can believe it. People would never sign up for this now. But there was a three week residential course at a college. We lived in the dorms. It was over the summer. Nobody would ever go to that now. But I did in 1996 or 97 or so to get a fundamental grasp on planned giving. And I did a lot of reading and I was able to take that first job as a director of planned giving at a college.

Wow, that's so cool. And that is something that I've seen and of course it shows up in.

Every.

Profession to a certain extent. But I feel like it's almost all people who choose the law as a profession. You all know how to learn better than most other people. You're able to go to these extra lengths to be able to go to this residential summer school, which is definitely something that I myself would sign up for. But no, you would point. Your point is certainly valid that many people wouldn't. We're just, we're outliers. But, but you did this and, and as you're, you're sort of doing the shift, was there, I don't know, a moment of, of self doubt of what am I doing? I'm a lawyer, I'm going to make a lot of money here. Even if it's miserable. I should stay?

Yeah, some, but not as much as you might think. Being miserable in a job, which was my first job, well, I had two jobs. It was two different law firms. Over those two years, the first law firm was starting to collapse. I don't want you to think I was a bad, bad young attorney. The first one was starting to collapse. Partners were leaving with many hundreds of cases each week. And so they laid off my whole class of a dozen people all at the same time. We were the young, my class being the youngest because we were doing, we'd been there less than a year. So then I moved to another firm and I was equally miserable there. But if you're at all self aware, you know that the work you're doing is not fulfilling. And that's a gross understatement. The work you're doing is making you miserable, perhaps. And so you have to change that. You can't spend 60, 70 hours a week, which is pretty typical for an associate in a big firm at something that causes you. For me, it was causing misery. I despised it. I loathed it that much. And I didn't aspire to look like the partners you're supposed to want to move up in your career through the years. You want to be A partner. I was dreading partnership at these firms because the partners were all divorced from their spouses, estranged from their kids, chained to their desks. They were miserable people. So I saw no end to the misery. Even if I could have thought, well, maybe I'll just be 8 or 9 or 10 years miserable as an associate and then I'll be a partner and it'll be so much better. The partners were all gray faced and lousy looking and miserable and unhappy. So there was nothing to aspire to. Now if you're at all self aware, you realize that that's unsustainable. So it doesn't give you a lot of pause in considering that you need to do something else. Right?

So the pain was in what you were currently doing and then it was easily overcome, what I was doing and.

What the rest of my, and what the rest of my career was going to look like.

So there was those two shifts. You had lawyer to planned giving and of course beginning to lawyer. But you had this, this shift again from work that you loved in planned giving to starting up your own shop. It was there any trepidation there? Did that just, that was a smooth transition for you?

No, there was more trepidation there because I, you know, you start from nothing. You know, I didn't have a business, I didn't have clients, I didn't have a way to make money. But the transition out of the second place, where I was director of planned giving the university was not difficult. I was putting, I was put in kind of an untenable situation, like they just weren't going to invest and I just didn't want to stay. So I knew I needed to move on. But I didn't have any clients to start a practice with. So you start reaching out to friends. For me it was reliance on my friends. Today we would just say my networks, but there was no LinkedIn in 1990. Sorry, this is 2003. I don't know if there was LinkedIn in 2003. It was nascent. So let's just say there was no LinkedIn. I certainly was not on LinkedIn in 2003. So that's not the network. I'm talking about friends, friends you've worked with or friends you went to school with who know you, those kinds of friends. And I leaned on them and I sent emails and I said, I'm starting a business. Described the work, I knew the work very well because I'd done it for six years at the Tune to educational places and I, I got some leads and One of those led to a small project. All right, so now I can pay my rent for a couple of months. Small project. And another lead led to my first retainer based client, which turned out to be another. Another college. Was another college. Not surprising, but didn't have to be. But that's the way it turned out. And then I was. I was on my way from there.

Well, that's great. And so then were you just. I mean, once you were on this train, this was the only way things could go. You. You just had to succeed.

You got to pay your bills. Yeah. And I was in a. I was in a career, a profession that I loved and still do love. Planned giving fundraising. I just needed to figure out a different way to do it. So I didn't just, you know, stay in a rut of being, like I said, director of planned giving somewhere else. A third director of planned giving position. Yeah. It didn't sound fulfilling to me. It didn't sound challenging.

Yeah. And I see that about you throughout your stories. As you were beginning and continuing on your professional journey, it seems like you're really focused on being bigger and better than you were before. And not even for the sake of conquering the world, but for the sake of being better. Am I on the mark there?

Yeah. I would say for the sake of my own peace of mind, I like to. Yeah, I challenge myself. Not every single day, you know, I don't run a mile and then try to run five miles the next day. I'm not keeping in perspective, but I like to be challenged professionally. And being director of planned giving a third time, even at a new charity, you know, okay. It's a challenge for several months, you know, meeting new people, new relationships. The relationships are personal relationships are critical to planned giving fundraising. You got to navigate the personalities and the culture of the new organization, of course, you know, but, you know, six months, maybe a year even. But then I'm back in the same routine. It didn't sound fulfilling. Starting a business, choosing who I work with, overcoming the obstacles of business management, as well as doing the. You got to run the business, but you also have to be substantively skilled in the work that I'm doing, you know, but aside from the work, you got to run a business. Oh, that sounded interesting to me. So I, I took it on.

It's truly stupendous. Do you have any habits in place that keep that mindset together or is this just. It just grows out of you. You are as a person.

That's a great question, Samar. I Think in part, it's the company that I keep. My friends are ambitious. They haven't all started businesses. I mean, one good friend from college, so I've known him since 1984, a little before I graduated. So I've known him before then. So over, we're talking 45 years or so, something like that. He had his entire career with IBM, his full career from college to retirement, worked for IBM. So I'm not saying everybody is entrepreneurial and startup culture mindset, but the folks I gravitate toward and have stayed in touch with, a lot of them, I mean, a lot of people, I stay in touch with a lot of people from a lot of different phases of my life, going back to high school, they're ambitious. So that helps people you're around, I think, energize you, influence you. And if they don't, if they're drawing, if they're like a net negative, they draw more energy than they give you. To me, that's a toxic relationship. Whether it's a friend or intimate or professional, like the partners at the two law firms. I would say those are toxic relationships for me. I'm not in touch with any of those partners. So I'd say the habit would be the company that I keep, the friends I keep close.

Oh, absolutely.

That's really people like the people I choose to work with and look, and those are the people who helped me launch that business. I leaned on my friends, friends who I had known since high school and college and Air Force and law school, and also friends who I had worked with at former jobs.

And I love that. And I think more and more on this podcast, I keep running into somebody. You know, on the face of it, people would say self made, they would say they bootstrapped everything. And the first thing they say is, it was my. It was my network, it was my community, it was my friends. It was not me alone. And that's so heartwarming to hear because everybody could use one or two more really good people in their lives, especially the young people who may be listening. So that's, that's really good. So I always ask if there's somebody out there who is really struggling with self doubt, really in the throes of imposter syndrome, if there even is such a thing, but they are not able to move forward and they want to get to where you are, do you have any advice for that person consistent.

With what we're talking about? I would say lean on your friends, look to your friends for support, and if you need Deeper support, then engage a professional. You're talking about a therapist. I'm not currently in a therapist relationship, but I was for decades. So lean on other people. I mean, I would start, as I said, I would start with friends who you trust, but if your issues run deeper, which is not a judgment at all, then lean on professional help.

Oh, that's really good. And so few people in today's world, given I don't know what it is exactly. Maybe Covid messed us up with the quarantine or the way we use technology, but we are so much more insular than previous generations and so separated from each other. So that's really helpful advice.

I hope it is. I'm a baby boomer. Young. I'm a young baby boomer. Hasten to add young. The young end of the baby boomer spectrum, practically. I think technology is at least partly, maybe largely responsible for the isolation that you just mentioned. So engage friends. It's never too late. You know, like high school, old high school friends that you occasionally think of. It's never too late to pick up the phone or you may not have their number anymore. Try to reach them, try to find them through other friends. You know, there's a lot of. There's a lot of data available. There's a lot of personal data out there. You can find a lot of people. It's never too late, even if it's decades later to say, you know, I was just thinking about you and I remember our times together, wherever it was, you know, how are you? I'd love to catch up. Could we jump on a call or something like that? It's never too late for that, so that's really good. A little more advice, I suppose. Don't be embarrassed. If they're good friends, it's not embarrassing. It's touching that you were thinking of them and sought to reach out. That's a touching, genuine, sincere gesture. You might be a little embarrassed by the time, but don't let minor embarrassment keep you from renewing a friendship.

Could not have been said better. I am so glad to have had you on the podcast and your fantastic advice. In the end, I'm sure it's going to help a ton of people.

I hope so. Samar, thank you for hosting.

You got it. Thank you.

Bye.

So I had a ton of fun talking with Tony. I hope you go out and check out nonprofit radio with Tony Martinetti. He is on, I think, all podcast platforms, but Martinetti spelled M A R T I G N E T T I. If you have a hard time finding him that'll get you right to him. It's pretty unique name, but I just want to highlight one thing that Tony mentioned. We have absolutely the chance to lean on our friends and our friends are there to go in community to be there with us. And we talk a lot on this podcast about being there and sitting with friends and helping friends and talking things out with friends. But the other side is also true that sometimes we have to go and see someone who's professional at helping people through mental health difficulties. And there are some things that your community that your friends that all these laypeople are not going to be equipped to handle. It's not an everyday helpful kind of thing I can say. Three times in my life I have needed to see a professional and two of those times I went and one of those times I was too young and dumb to go and it nearly ended me before I got here. So friends, there are times when you just need to reach out to a professional. But for all other things, by all all means, reach out to your friends. Lean on them. Get by with a little help from friends. Like the Beatles. I think I can say that without paying them any money. At any rate, like I said, I had a ton of fun with Tony and I am looking forward to listening to his 750th episode.

So cool.

If you're interested in what I'm up to these days, link up with me at samarthhinx.com @smarthinks, on Instagramx, on Facebook. All the things I am here for you and I am here to help. If you're interested in getting some help with goal creation or accountability, samarthhinx.com is where you want to go though. And if you have a story of self doubt or imposter syndrome, shoot me an email at sort of surepodmail.com I can't wait to hear from you. Well, that's it for me today. Later days.