Welcome to the Sort of Sure podcast. Where doubt looms, fear whispers, and the only way forward is through. I'm Samar Carbo, and if you've ever felt like you're just sort of sure about what you're doing, you're not alone. This is where we face the uncertainty. Push past the hesitation and keep going anyway. So take a breath, step in, and let's move forward together.

Hello, and welcome to the Sort of Sure podcast. I'm Samar Kargbo and I am here to talk to you about imposter syndrome, self doubt, and all those sorts of things. Today we've got Abigail and she is going to talk to us about how she has felt imposter syndrome through college and at work and what she's done to work through that and get to the other side. Let's have ourselves a listen.

I'm Abigail. I am a licensed addiction counselor and I currently work for the state of Montana. The first time I feel like I felt, or I remember feeling imposter syndrome was in college. I went to college for nine years. And so I remember in my first couple years out of high school, I was kind of like. Or I had switched, I was in nursing and I had kind of not felt smart enough, not felt like I was with it enough to be in the classes that I was in. Then I switched my major over to criminal justice, and I remember sitting in classrooms towards the end of my college career just kind of saying, like, I'm not smart enough. How could I be doing this stuff? It still kind of baffles me that I have a bachelor's degree because, like, I went to school for a long time and put the work in, but that it's just kind of interesting being able to mark that on pieces of paper. I don't feel like I learned that much to be able to mark it on pieces of paper. So that kind of leads me into. When I started for the Department of Corrections. I went to the interview and on the way home, my dad called me and asked me if I got the job. And I said, no, I didn't get the job. And he said, well, what do you mean? How do you know that already? And I was like, I completely bombed that interview. I didn't know. Like, I didn't know anything about what they were saying. I just kind of went on what I know, and I don't think I got the job. Well, a week or two later, I was. I was currently in college and interning with the federal probation office in Billing, Montana, and they had called Me and said, you're getting a second interview. Because I had put them as a reference. And I was, like, totally baffled. And I remember going to my second interview, and they walked me into an office space, and they were like, this will be your office. And I was like, I get an office. I'm not smart enough to get an office. I don't have enough to offer to people to. To have. To have an office to talk to them in. It was just kind of things of like, I have life experience, but I don't. You know, I don't know anything more than the next guy. So there was kind of some doubts there. And so I just kind of continued to go on what I knew until I made it. One of the things that I kind of picked out from the offenders that I work with is the fake it till you make it theory. And I feel like that's been a huge. How I've made it in my career or how I've made it to where I am is I don't think I know what I'm doing, but I'm gonna fake like I do. And everybody else seems like they believe it. So that was a. That's a big thing. I try to remind myself is that I actually do know in corrections, they call it. They say that we're cynical, but. And get, like, overconfident. But now I kind of, like, have to bring myself back down and kind of remember where I started. I can see, like, just the way that I can share with people of the positives that I have been through in my life and kind of help bring their thinking out. I have seen that I can help people by just what I say and what I've been through myself.

So on that, have you noticed that when you start to feel imposter syndrome, I mean, you shared a few tentpole experiences, but when you're feeling that, do you think it more comes from other people's expectations or more what you expect of yourself?

I wouldn't say it comes from my expectations. I would say it comes from not believing myself and just kind of saying, like, is it really this? Do I really know what's going on? Like, the things that they're teaching me are things that I've kind of, like, figured out through life. And it's not that different, but there's no way it can be this easy. And then it kind of turns it into, like, you know, be good to yourself. Don't beat yourself up. The world will beat you up or will do it for you and kind of keeping A positive mindset at the very base of what's happened.

That community aspect is huge. Anybody who's been successful in these self doubt arenas has gotten out of it because they had a support system to start them out. And is that, is that something that's the beginning for you or is the turning point for you an internal one? Are you able to snap yourself out of it and say you need to get around people or is it the other way around?

I'm usually able to tell myself that I need to get around people. I've consistently lived way out of town. So like right Now I live 30 miles out of town. My whole growing up and then my whole life I've lived 15 to 30 miles out of town. And so I know that something that's not healthy for me is to be alone a lot at my house. I need to be out with people and I need to be social. And so that's one of the things that I know that is my coping skill is to kind of be around and be social and be around people to problem solve. And so I would have to say that luckily with my mental health, I've been pretty focused on that. And being an addiction counselor for the last 10 years has definitely made me need to focus on my own mental health. Because you can't fill somebody else's cup if yours is empty. And so it's definitely something I keep in the forefront as much. I'm very extroverted.

Anyone who's been to a JC conference knows you're extroverted. And it's the best. So when you have those feelings, I mean, is it something that is more like a roller coaster or does it just live in an undercurrent where when life kind of dips on its own, you find it again?

I would say an undercurrent. Just kind of when something looks down, I'm able to stack things on top of it that are down and negative after negative after negative. And then I have to remind myself like there's something positive. You got up today and you are breathing. You got up today and you have a job to go to. And there is positive. Quit beating on yourself.

That's good. And I love that you kept going because my. My next question was going to be about how you quiet that voice. But you kind of walked us through it there. A little bit of telling yourself there. There are reasons to go on. There are reasons to keep your head up. And I love that. So is it a. I guess I want to phrase it as. Are you kind of Beating yourself up in a positive way, or are you just encouraging yourself with those words?

Encouraging myself with those words to kind of. To move forward. I'm a person that has had a couple changes in my life. I mean, I was raised in foster care. My mom died when I was young. I've been divorced. Just different things have happened. And so I try to compare the current things that are happening to something I've been through. And then like, remind myself, like, this. This ain't nothing. Just get up and deal with it.

Okay? So kind of pull yourself up by your bootstraps, sort of. Sort of chutzpah, right?

Which I think is kind. It's hard because that's like not everyone in the world has that or does that, and that's completely okay. And I think that that's what makes it so important for people to help. Because the whole thing of just get over it is not true. Like, it doesn't work. You know, people go through some things. And so if we can help each other and we can motivate each other, just being that, you know, I would never say to somebody else that was struggling, just get over it. Just, you know, just make it better. Because that doesn't help. You know, being grateful, looking at the things or the places that you can be and the goals that you do have is what I would suggest there instead. I don't like the old rancher theory of just get up and do it at the same time. Sometimes I have to tell myself that.

Sometimes we give ourselves the tough love when really all we need is that little bit of encouragement. And I love that you have sort of honed a balance between the two. You give yourself that tough love. But you also say there are people who love you. You have a job that's ahead of you, and all of those sorts of things that seem really positive pressure for yourself. So I wonder, with all of these great things in place, do you have habits that you just sort of have in your day or week or month that keep you from backsliding into the self doubt?

I am like the worst person with habits in the world. I don't know why. I just like, if you tell me that I need to do something once a day, like, I don't know if I could do it. So, like, if I was a diabetic and I had to take medication, I would. I think I would probably die because I can never, like, do the same thing every day. But I guess things that I do treasure is I'm a planner. Sometimes it becomes an over Planning thing. But I have to have things to look forward in life. Like pretty soon Chicago is something I look forward to. I'm also taking. Taking a trip after that. So since I was a kid, I always had to say, like, oh, well, this is going to be a cool experience. And I'm getting through these days to make it to that. And then I would set the next thing for the next thing. So something to look forward to is my main coping skill. And I guess I think that thing that I've made a habit out of building treatment programs. I built gratitude circle into treatment programs that I've done. And very often I get pulled into these gratitude circles with offenders. And so almost every morning I have to say what I'm grateful for, which doesn't hurt, but it's just something I'd forget to do if I was on my own.

Would you mind sharing something that you shared recently that you were grateful for?

I think so. Today in gratitude circle, I said I was grateful for my husband and my animal.

Awesome. Grateful for husband and animals. And just out of curiosity, what kind of animals do you have?

I have two horses. I have two personal horses and five horses at work that I'm responsible for and then I have two dogs.

So that is what, nine animals that you interact with probably on a daily basis?

Yes.

Well, that probably doesn't hurt the mental health.

No.

That's great. So we've talked about and you've mentioned a number of theories and thoughts that other people have had about imposter syndrome or self doubt. But I want to put a fine point on it. What's something that you believe people get wrong about imposter syndrome?

I guess probably that not everyone feels it. I think that when people. We are all making decisions, no matter how big or how small, at times we don't know if it's the right choice. And so it can put us in rooms that we don't know if we should have a spot at the table, but we're there anyways and so we better just keep it together. And so I think like a lot of people or I don't think truly anybody has it completely together and knows what they need to do. So I think it. Pretty much everybody in the world feels imposter syndrome at times.

That's awesome. On the seat at the table thing, Shirley Chisholm, I believe she was the first black congresswoman, said, if they won't give you a seat at the table, bring your own folding chair. Yeah, that's. Yeah.

In Toya in Virginia beach, one of the recipients was a girl that had. Was currently. She was in lac and she was currently in. In recovery. And she had kind of brought that up and she said that theory.

So love it. So what is one piece of advice that you have for someone out there who's listening to the podcast who may have imposter syndrome that they're feeling right now?

I would say believe in yourself, because everyone in the world that's in your support system believes in you.

That's so good. Because we tend to discount. Especially the people in our support system. We tend to tell them, well, yeah, all right, well, you already love me. So the people out there, they don't know me. They think I'm garbage. And those people don't count. They don't care, I would say.

So we kind of talk about, like, national JCU conventions. So at my national JCS conventions that I went to, I met people from around the nation, and those people, like, reinvigorated my confidence in myself because when I started working for the department 10 years ago and the apartment showed that they kind of believed in me. We hired you for this job, now go do this job. Right? So then another place that I was kind of like, at training, like, I don't know anything about this national whole thing, I'm just gonna kind of sit in the corner and be quiet. And I think we both know how hard it is for me to be quiet. But that didn't happen. But then I wasn't quiet. But then that allowed people to, like, believe in me from there. And I just was surprised how many people have believed in me or have believed me, believed in me on through the whole rank in the jcs, moving up to state president and different things like that. And I figured out who was in my support system that way.

That's stupendous. And that is a pretty strong through line of all the JCS that I've had on. There is so much positivity and so much extra confidence that comes out of getting in a group of other JCs. There's such an intentional intensity around that experience. And of course, me knowing from personal experience, you just feel like you can do anything after one of those.

Yeah.

Thanks for sharing. You have a great night.

Yep, you too.

Bye.

I want to thank Abigail once again for being here on this show. It was stupendous having a conversation with her and just really feeling that vulnerability come through. I love it when people can truly share their story. That is a wrap for this episode of the sort of share podcast. If today's conversation got you thinking. Don't stop here. Grab my free one page masterclass in the show notes. It is the burnout blueprint and it is here to start tackling Imposter Syndrome and to get you out of the energy drain that starts with Imposter Syndrome, continues with believing in yourself a little too much that takes you down that path. This is all about clarity and confidence. You can find that in the Show Notes. And hey, I'd love to hear your story. If you've got personal experience with Imposter Syndrome, whether you've battled it, still wrestling with it, had a breakthrough, or you just got some advice for others, send me an email at sort of surepodmail.com your story might just help someone else take the next step in their journey. Until next time. You keep showing up for you and for those around you, even when you're only sort of sure. Later days.