Welcome to the Sword of Sure podcast. Where doubt looms, fear whispers, and the only way forward is through. I'm Samar Carbo, and if you've ever felt like you're just sort of sure about what you're doing, you're not alone. This is where we face the uncertainty. Push past the hesitation and keep going anyway way. So take a breath, step in, and let's move forward together.

Hello and welcome to the Sword of Shore podcast. As you may have heard in the intro, my name is Samar Carbo and we have a stellar episode for you today. We've got Early Brunner and they are a powerhouse of pushing events for recovery and growing a non profit and pushing past imposter syndrome in order to live a life that they're proud of. Now, as you go into this episode, you're going to notice a slightly different method of editing that I've done. You'll hear a little bit more of me in it, and that's just because as we move on, I'm finding my identity kind of as sort of Shore and I want to include more of my own voice so that we can actually have it sound like a conversation instead of a few episodes sound more like monologues. So we're going to push this kind for a little while and see how it goes. If you have a story to tell, shoot me an email at sort of surepodmail.com I'd love to hear from you. Without further ado, let's get on to Early. Let's have a listen.

My name's early, my pronouns are they, them, I am queer and I live in a cabin in the woods. And I recently started a new non profit that does non religious addiction recovery services here in northwest Arkansas.

That is fantastic. I want to start as far back as we can, so would you mind sharing a bit about your personal background? What, what early experiences shaped your view of the world?

Yeah, I would love to. So I grew up as an autistic child, but I didn't know that I was autistic. So I experienced like pretty intense social rejection as a kid. It was really confusing. Um, and for some reason I just didn't ever talk to anyone about it. I was just, yeah, bullied and rejected and it was extremely painful for me and I felt intensely alone. And at some point growing up, I discovered that drugs and alcohol led to an immediate friend group and social acceptance. However, I, like couldn't control my use at all. It was all or nothing. Like I was immediately just like a binge drinker. A blackout drinker. So that experience of social acceptance that I had was pretty quickly followed by negative repercussions. But very soon I became like pretty severely addicted to alcohol. So even in my mid teenage years in high school, that that initial aha moment of having that social acceptance just very quickly became drinking in the morning, puking in my sleep, you know, like it. And then the social acceptance became social rejection because I started acting badly. So I would be out there like breaking bottles in the street and then getting kicked out of the party instead of having that friendship that I like, really, really desired. And then I got kind of just stuck in this feedback loop of addiction and surrounding myself with people that would find that acceptable, which is also people that were in addiction also very deeply. And I constantly was like trying to work my way out of it, find recovery, but I never really had the resources that I need, needed. And then all of along it was like watching my friends suffer, watching my friends die, being afraid that I was going to die, and at some times like wanting to die. And I tried AA and that religious approach just didn't really work for me. I went to jail several times, lost a bunch of jobs, and I also was like institutionalized, sometimes on purpose, sometimes against my will. And all of that just kind of like made me feel hopeless and hate myself. And eventually I just discovered a book. It's called this Naked Mind by Annie Grace. And it was the first time that I ever saw that it was possible to just like rewire your brain and move on from addiction. And it blew my mind. And it was so exciting to me. And I just felt like I had been like, like wallowing in my own sorrow and like dithering needlessly for. It was 13 years in between. The first time I tried to quit drinking and when I found this book, and then I, through finding that book, found there's like a whole genre of books that's called quit lit. And I started educating myself, learning about neuroscience, and forgiving myself for all of the hell that I'd caused over the years. And in conjunction with that, I also found recovery podcasts and educated myself through both of those things. And something switched and I was able to begin to find lasting recovery.

Imposter syndrome shows up a little bit differently for different people. Can you tell me what it's been like for you?

So I've experienced imposter syndrome in a couple of different ways in my life. And one is with running the non profit, but another one came before running the nonprofit, and it has less to do I think with being on the autism spectrum and more to do with feeling like society sees me as a worthless piece of. For having an addiction and being in recovery. And so the first time I experienced it was when I was new in recovery, and I decided that I wanted to start working in emergency medical services. I was really drawn to the idea of it, and I began as, like, a volunteer firefighter, just to see what it would be like. And as it turns out, like, I really thrived in that emergency environment. I was able to think really clearly and do really well. And then after that, I went to EMT school and applied to work on an ambulance. And I actually had to wait a couple of months for my last DUI to come off of my driving record before they would consider my application on the ambulance. And the interesting thing at the volunteer fire department was when I applied there, they. They were like, oh, cool. Welcome. Do you want to learn how to drive the fire truck? And I was like, didn't you see on my application where I talk about the DUIs? And they're like, yeah, everyone has DUIs. Like, do you want to learn how to drive the fire truck? And it just kind of blew my. It just kind of blew my mind that people were so accepting of it. And the HR manager at the ambulance company that I applied at was like, oh, right now we can't insure you, so I can't interview you, but in a few months when it's off of your record, I would be happy to interview you because you'll be valid on our insurance. And so he had the whole picture. Like, everyone knew I had an addiction. I'm in recovery. I. And they're still like, do you want to drive the fire truck? Do you want to drive the ambulance? Like, you have the training. You have a license, you have certification. And yet I was like, why are these people letting me do this? Why are they allowing me to go to medical emergencies and drive an ambulance and drive a fire truck? Like, I shouldn't be allowed to do this? Don't they know I'm a scumbag? Don't they know I'm a loser? And so I definitely suffered pretty intensely with imposter syndrome throughout that for a while, until I just, like, got enough experience doing it and. And had enough people, like, accepting me and encouraging me and being like, no, you're intelligent. You have the training, and you're good at this. And it just took, like, experience and repeated acceptance for me to be like, okay, no, I do. Like, I have a license. I have Training, like, I. I'm thriving in this environment and the imposter syndrome, I was just like, I just can't let this hold me down, I guess. And later, as I decided that I was done with my time in emergency medical services, I became, like, really excited about working with people in recovery because I just, like, I knew how much I had suffered. I've seen how much other people suffer. I have a lot of friends that have died as a result of their addiction. And I'm just like, became so, so passionate about wanting to help people with that. But the thing about that is that in this case, I don't have any official training and I don't have a license or a certificate or anything. I'm not. I didn't go to college. But yet when I talk to people, I still have a positive effect. And they're still grateful and they are still, like, really excited about the support groups that we're having. And there's like a ton of research into peer support that shows that when someone's been through something that you've also been through, just that factor of being relatable makes it so you're getting like a huge therapeutic benefit. And a lot of times, like, also in my own experience, when I've gone to like a psychiatrist who's sitting behind some big mahogany desk with all of the certificates of PhD and stuff behind the wall, I just feel like this person doesn't understand me. And I appreciate training and I think that certifications are important. And I think that having both types of people in our lives, if we're like seeking therapeutic benefit, having a professional with training and then having someone that's also been through it is really important. But I've definitely gone through that with starting a nonprofit. Being like, why would anyone listen to me? You know, I didn't go to college, but it's also like, I just, I went to the school of life, you know, So I totally experience imposter syndrome with running the nonprofit as well. But hearing people's feedback, seeing them thrive, hearing people say, like, wow, these support groups, this like, science based, non religious approach is so needed in our society, and it's helping me so much like that pretty immediately squelches out whatever imposter syndrome has tried to worm its way into my brain.

I'm wondering if you've had any pressure to just blend in instead of being special.

Oh, my gosh, yeah, I definitely have had pressure to blend in. And it was really hard on the ambulance, mostly with my co workers and less with like, the general public, because the general public sort of like expects this professional attitude, which is like a mask that it's really easy to plug into what they expect of you. So it was pretty easy just to like, especially since I had like this natural ability just to be calm in any situation. I was like, really well suited to that. And yeah, like, prescriptive mask is really easy for me to put on. Like, also I've done a lot of waiting tables and service industries type of stuff. And when it's like, when there's a really clear thing that people expect from me, I can just like put that mask on like a costume and it's not so hard. But with my coworkers on the ambulance, it was like this whole new subculture of people that I wasn't really used to. And in the healthcare industry, like, there's a lot of like, nuanced different coping skills and like ways of interacting with people that I had to learn like a whole new language. Like there's all of these superstitions that people would be like, okay, you can't polish your boots and you, you can't look at this part of the pediatric bag and you can't say it's going to be quiet that night. Or you can't like say that your shift is slow. Or there's all of these like new ways of interacting with people that were like the norms for the healthcare industry that I was like completely unaware of. And if I thought it was funny to like joke with people, like, oh yeah, so quiet today, like, to me that was funny. And to some people it like legitimately made them angry. So definitely it was a huge new set of cultural norms for me and very difficult to learn being on the autism spectrum. And sometimes I would get like flustered with the behavior of other people and not understand how to interact with my co workers. And it, yeah, it definitely made it more challenging just being in this entire new subculture of the world. And like when people, when, when we see horrible things every day, like, there's also all of these ways of like coping with that trauma. And a lot of it is like, it just didn't. The ways that most of my coworkers coped with the trauma didn't resonate with me. So I did have a lot of difficult social interactions at my job. But as far as being with the patients and treating them, it was pretty easy to plug into that professional attitude of what they expect and feel safe in that.

That's great. We've touched on a few things and a few reasons that just about anybody would freeze up and keep from moving forward, but you've moved forward past them. So I'm wondering, do you have a habit or a mechanism in place in your life that has helped you whenever something seems perhaps insurmountable or imposter syndrome sneaks in? Move forward.

Anyway, yeah, there's just like a couple of things that come right to mind. I mean, I've been in therapy for a really long time, so I've just made a lot of work with my. I've done a lot of work with myself personally. But there's like a couple of tips that I would give to someone if they're struggling. And one is the phrase, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. So if something seems like just massively insurmountable and difficult and it takes too many steps, and how could I ever accomplish that? You break it down into tiny little bite sized pieces. You take one baby step, you do the next right thing, and eventually, you know, 5,000 steps later, you've walked a mile. And so at times when I'm just like, gosh, like, how could I ever, you know, start a whole nonprofit? Like, I'm just Joe, like, with a high school education and just a lot of experience being a drunk loser. But as it turns out, that's all it takes to have the ability. I mean, it's that and it's passion and it's like something that's important to me. So breaking everything down into bite sized pieces and reminding myself of that phrase, you eat an elephant one bite at a time. Not that I would ever eat an elephant, I'm a vegetarian. But there's that. And then the other thing that immediately comes to mind is having the values of a good eulogy instead of bad one. And that's kind of cryptic to think about, but if you think of someone reading your eulogy at the end of your life, like, do you want it to say, well, they worked their life away at a job they hated and they never had time to do anything they loved and, you know, then they died nearly death and that's about it. Or do you want the person reading a eulogy at your funeral to be like, they lived passionately and bravely and they loved other people and they spent time in nature and they fought for what they believed in, you know, so like, when I'm, if I'm ever questioning myself or my goals, like, can I do this? Is it worth it? I like to think from a eulogy perspective, like, what do I want to leave behind for People. And what do I want, like, the broader picture of my life to look like? And I know it's like kind of a scary thought to like, think about your own death, but just like reflecting from the end of the life, looking backwards, like, what choices would a person make to avoid regret? And I like to let that set the fire underneath of me to move forward to things that might be scary but that are really important.

So wonderfully said.

I didn't invent the eulogy concept either, or obviously reading the elephant. Those are things that I learned from other people, but that just really, really stick with me.

All right, great. I'm totally going to tell people you created it. When I repeat it.

Trademark early dinner.

So I do always ask, if you had somebody who is perhaps where you were a few years ago, who is perhaps in the throes of addiction or any number of the things that you've overcome, and they're struggling with self doubt and imposter syndrome, what advice would you have for them?

It sounds like the most trite thing ever, but we have to find a way to love ourselves and take each action by asking ourselves, what would someone who loves themselves do? And fake it till you make it? And then eventually, if you keep acting in skillful ways and pretend like you're someone who loves yourself, eventually you become that. And a person who loves themselves is going to be a person who treats themselves and others with kindness and generosity and who takes positive steps forward in their life to create a life worth living. So even if you don't feel like a person who loves themselves, you do the next right thing. Act skillfully. And if you do what a person who loves themselves would do, eventually you find that self love. And you can create a life more beautiful than you've ever imagined.

Really? That didn't sound trite at all. That was beautiful.

Thank you.

Absolutely.

There is one question that I like.

To ask, and it's a free for all, no right or wrong answer. But is there anything that we haven't mentioned on the podcast so far that you would like to mention?

I think imposter syndrome is a normal part of the human condition, and it's some part inside of ourselves that's trying to protect us from failure or something. So I'm grateful for that part and the work that it's doing, but I'm also grateful for the awareness to be able to move past things that might be holding me back. So I think if someone's experiencing imposter syndrome, that you're normal and that I think everyone goes through it whether they admit it or not.

And beautifully said. Again, I don't think there is a nonprofit out there that stands a chance against Shirley.

Send the people with the money, please.

There we go. Send the people with the money. I hope they're listening.

Oh, wait, don't put that on there. I mean, do. I don't know. That's charming. I know it's farming, it's hard to say, but man, the money is the hardest part of a non profit, I'll tell you that much. Why can't I just do the work?

There it is. All right, early, well, it has been a distinct pleasure and I hope you have a great rest of your night out there in the woods.

Yeah. Nice talking with you. Thanks for the opportunity.

Absolutely. You have a good night.

All right, have a good night.

I want to thank early once again for being on the sort of sure podcast. It was truly a pleasure to have that conversation and I even got secondary enjoyment out of editing this podcast. And once again, I am just going to have to figure out how to have like a special area where you can have members only shows and stuff like that because the raw conversation there is just so much fun and. And you'd get to hear how clumsy I am talking about things I'm not so familiar with and all that great stuff. So as soon as I figure it out, this is going to definitely be an episode that's. That'll be included in that members only area. But other than that, folks, I have kept you long enough. I like to keep these episodes around 20 minutes and we have got to get out of here. So I want to thank you for being part of the Sword of Shore podcast family. It is a pleasure to provide these episodes for you. And to know people are listening just warms my heart. And I look forward to offering you many more episodes as we come up on 20 and we're heading toward a thousand. And remember, if you have a story to tell of imposter syndrome and self doubt, just shoot me an email at sort of surepodmail.com and we'll see you next Friday. Later days.