Welcome to the Sword of Sure podcast. Where doubt looms, fear whispers, and the only way forward is through. I'm Samar Carbo, and if you've ever felt like you're just sort of sure about what you're doing, you're not alone. This is where we face the uncertainty. Push past the hesitation, and keep going anyway way. So take a breath, step in, and let's move forward together.

Hello and welcome to the Sword of Shore podcast. As you may have heard in the beginning, my name is Samar Carbo and I recently had a conversation with Dr. Sanji Fatima Herold and it was fruitful. This is somebody who turned tragedy in her life into hope in someone else's. It is truly an inspiring story and I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it. But before we get there, if you have a story to tell, shoot me an [email protected] I'd love to hear from you. So without further ado, let's have a listen.

So first of all, thank you so much for inviting me to the podcast. This is my first podcast as an interviewee. It's a privilege and an honor to meet with you. My name is Dr. Sanji Fatima Harold. I am the founder and the CEO of Sabri Enrichment Academy. That's a 501c3 nonprofit mentoring organization. I created it as a sacred memory of my 17 year old son, Sabrina Marquise Daniels, who transitioned at the age of 17. His name means light to me and legacy. And so I'm using my pain of losing my son as fuel to do work to help other people, particularly youth who live in marginalized communities. And also I recently took on the role as the executive director for another nonprofit called the American Society of Marginalized Lives. I met a neonatologist, his name is Dr. Akil Maheshwari and we've been talking quite a bit over the past month and he has his nonprofit and I will be working on his behalf as well.

So what are some defining experiences in your life that shaped the woman you are today?

I would say things that occurred in my childhood. Abuse early on, sexual abuse early on and when I was at starting at the ages of 7 until about 12. And also having my father be murdered when I was 7 definitely shaped who I became. And then Fast forward to 2005. I lost both my son and his stepmother to a double homicide where his my ex husband, his father murdered my son and his stepmother. So those three two things were major in shaping who I am and how I view life. The funny thing is though, after my son died, it kind of reset my clock and my thinking. So all this while where I never really thought much of myself, no matter how much, how many degrees I earned, no matter what I did, I really still didn't think much of myself until my son died. And because I'm still here, it feels like I have important work to do. But that kind of caused the light to come on to say, hey, you've got some things you need to be doing that are great things, so let's do it.

Yeah, well, I feel like there are people in our lives who are kind of pillars who we've chosen to sort of build our life on. No matter how late in life they come in, they just become so important to us that once they're gone, we take that opportunity to, to rethink how the world works at large. And I think we have to. In those moments, I don't think we really get a choice. Because the world only worked because that person was in it previously. And losing your son, that changes everything. I'm so sorry that happened.

Thank you. It did. It's funny because for a while I am a Christian. For a while I kept thinking and praying to God and saying, would you please, I'm ready to go, you know, go to heaven now. I've been good, I do what I'm supposed to do. Let me be with my son. It's just hard to be here and to keep moving on. And then finally one day I said, okay, since, since I'm still here, I guess I have work to do. So I says, please, whatever it is, help me to be great, to be a great person and do great things. I call myself bargaining.

Yeah. And I would say, I mean that's, that's grief, you know, thinking you'd rather be with your son than anyone else who's here. That is, that is perfectly, I'd say normal. And so that's, that's not a far reaching thing for, for I think anyone who may be listening now. You describe yourself as I on your website say scoured it for questions. You describe yourself as spiritual mother, as mystic, as healer. For someone that's a little bit unfamiliar with that language, how would you explain what you do?

What I do? Well, I have actually a routine every day, just about every day I get up 4, 4:30, 5 o' clock and I actually have, well, a master bedroom with the ensuite bathroom. And in that bathroom I have prayers I have written over the years and they're on the wall. So I Say my prayers and my sacred space there. And I exercise and I make sure that I'm centering my life around the Lord. He's at the center and he's at the head. So I make sure that I meditate on the scriptures, His Word, positive affirmations. I always have to bring myself back to that spot throughout the day, otherwise life can get pretty grim. So that's all that means, is that I, I know, I always say, I know who I am, I. But more importantly, I know who I belong to and I belong to God. So there's no mysticism or anything like that. It's the realization and the acknowledgement of God and know that I'm here to do for a purpose, that I belong to him.

And so beautiful. I'm sure there are a great many people who would identify with that. So I know you've talked about a few big points there. Would you say there is. I mean, of course, you know, naturally there had to be these moments, but we'll still ask the question just to get it a little bit more finer point on it.

Would you say?

I mean, of course there were many, but when in your journey did you start to notice there was a feeling of imposter syndrome, or more to the point, self doubt? Did it show up earlier in life or was that the realization of it a little bit later?

I think it showed up earlier in life. I'm remembering. I think I might have been in the seventh grade or so, I'm not sure. But there was a show that used to be on television, Good Times with Esther Roll. And are you familiar with that television show, Good Times?

I am familiar with it, but only through reruns.

Okay, so she had actually came to my elementary school and because I was always a good student, I never missed school. You know, we used to have these buttons. Good attendance, their citizenship, trustworthy. I have buttons all over my clothes. I was a patrol girl. I was a patrol girl also working with the crossing guard. And so the crossing guard decided that I would be the perfect person to meet Esther Rowe. When she came to our school, I was supposed to present her with flowers. So ahead of time I was. My grandmother bought me two dresses to choose from and I was. Got my hair done and everything. And I was supposed to meet her, give her her flowers, but I became so nervous and afraid that I could not make myself leave the house. I was feeling like I wasn't good enough or why was I even chosen? Why was I out of all those kids, why was I chosen to do that? I can't do this. I would say that it started early on. I think it started because when so much happens to you that results from abuse, you don't get to flourish as a person like you should. That's what I think has occurred, had occurred to me. And so I never felt good enough. I always felt like something was wrong with me. You know, you feel shame and all kinds of things. Even if something is not your fault, you still feel ashamed. So I think it started early on. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. And so that's. That seems to be like, I mean, naturally pretty young. It starts to come up. When did you start realizing it for what it was like saying, hey, that's imposter syndrome, and it's not me. It's not the right story.

That. Now, that actually occurred over the past few years. Actually. I was talking to a friend of mine who. Who I've known for maybe 32, 33 years. We were talking one day, and he gifted me with a book about imposter syndrome. It was written by a physician. I read that entire book in the matter of days, and I thought, the whole book is about this one physician who interviewed other physicians who also felt imposter syndrome. And I thought, man, that puts a name to it. I never. I never knew that title existed. I didn't even think about that for myself. And so it's been just over the past few years, actually, that I've come to know the term and what it means, and I could relate to that, but it's been around for a long time. I just didn't have the words to name it.

Do you have the name of that book, by any chance, so you can share it with the listener?

Unlocking your Authentic self is Overcoming Imposter Syndrome, Enhancing Self Confidence and Banishing Self Doubt. And it's written by Jennifer Hunt, M.D. it's a very good, very helpful book. And once you get into it, it's hard to put it down. And you would think all these positions that you interview, you would think because they made it to what we would consider as a prestigious position in life, that. That they're fine, but no, they're just human beings with the same type of feelings like anybody else. So.

And in. In your experiences as a black woman in leadership, did you find yourself having to work differently or being seen differently than your colleagues or leaders of other nonprofits, work scenarios?

I've always felt like I had to work harder and longer, and maybe I didn't have to, but I'm not sure. But it always Just felt that way because I always needed to show that I was doing and being my best. When I worked as an administrator for a school, well, where I live, of course there was an alternative program that I worked for and I used to be there seven days a week. I wasn't supposed to be, but I have my own office there and I work every day from 6:30 to 3:30. But I would often come on Saturdays, come on Sunday, I'll go back in the evening, take my dog with me and go back and make things perfect. I always felt the need to make everything perfect and homey so that the kids would feel comfortable. But so much so that my significant other said to me, you know, you don't make any money. I was like, what are you talking about? He said, because you did so much that you probably just makes pennies, pennies per hour because you're there way too much. But for me, I had to present as the best. I don't know where that came from, but it's always felt like I had to do more and be more to be at the same level as my non black American counterpart or colleagues.

I hear that and I keep hearing that from people who are in helping professions who work just incredibly hard and are trying to just be in the space where everybody else seems to just be. And through your stories and your mentions of, you know, trauma that's happened to you and all of that, I find sort of an undercurrent. And you haven't said it yourself, but I find that you take these feelings seriously. When self doubt creeps in, when you have, when you lose your son and you have major depression, when you have something that's really big weighing you down, that's on your shoulders, whether you like it or not, you take it seriously and you take steps to move forward. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how you do that or what ethic helps you do that. How do you move forward when the world has a hole in it, when there is no way to move forward?

For most scripture and the words in the Bible will help you as a guide in your life. That's what I use. And a long time ago I learned of a scripture. Right now I can't even pinpoint the name, but it says, put on the whole armor of God. And I realized that when I don't do that, when I have a chink in my armor, then I have a hard time with life. So it feels like throughout the day, like in the morning when I do the prayer, meditation and exercising I'm putting on my armor, the whole arm of God. But as I'm going through the day, sometimes things will happen that could make me upset or angry or sad. And I think to myself, you have a chink in your armor. You need to get that metaphorical soldering iron and fix that chink and keep on going.

What advice would you have for somebody who is in a really hard spot themselves and is feeling imposter syndrome or is feeling self doubt, who may be listening to the podcast out there? What do you have for them?

What I would say is I always feel a little pressured to not say anything wrong. For example, I began writing a LinkedIn newsletter just about a month ago, and right now I have, I think, 507 subscribers. That happen quickly. And sometimes I will write things because it's what I have on my heart when I wake up in the morning. And I feel like it's prompted by the Holy Spirit, that if you have a mindset and have your spirit focused on God in your heart, it's going to help you. Now, not everybody listens to that. I have a daughter who I struggle with. She's grown, way grown, but she doesn't always listen when I give her advice that has to do with God because, you know, sometimes people don't want me to tell them what to do. But it really and truly it feels to me and I'm proof of it. If you. I guess I believe in miracles for sure. And I believe in God for sure. He's been a part of my life for a very long time. And so I know that if you get to get to know him and let him be a part of your life and put, put into place your routines as far as reading your Bible. I have a. I have a gratitude journal that I keep. I have a prayer journal that I keep. And so I can write my thoughts down and make sure that I'm not missing out on a prayer that I might want to say or something, maybe something major happened or something smaller happened. I want to make a note of that. And so that for the times when I feel awful, I can go back to my. My journals, my prayer journals, my devotionals, my Bible, whatever it is, my books, and read those things and let them nourish me, nourish my soul and nourish me, nourish my mind. Help me stay focused. So my advice would be get to know the Lord. I'm just telling you, get to know the Lord and make sure that you are doing those things that will edify your mind and your soul and your heart. Because it's too much going on in this world. There's too many bad messages and negativity and hatred and turmoil. All kinds of things are going on. So you have to combat all of that with. With the good word and, you know, positivity. That would be my advice. Leadership. Well, life in general is not about perfection. And it's not about your performance. It's really about your presence as a leader, showing up as your full self and being. Being willing to. To stand on your stand on your own standing, your own strength, being willing to say, you know what? I don't know that answer, but I'll get back to you. Just because you're a leader doesn't make you superhuman. We all need to grow. And that's one of my objectives, is to keep learning, keep growing, and keep moving forward, no matter what's going on. So that's important to me.

Oh, right. I love that. This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Dr. Sanjay Fatima. I know, man.

I want to once again thank Dr. Sanji Fatima Harold for being here. I mean, what a story. Hearing somebody coming out of such difficult situation and turning it into power is so inspiring. And my friends out there, there is no easy way to get around imposter syndrome. Everything has work attached to it and this was a great example of it. I hope you'll join us next week where we'll have a conversation with Laura Giles. And remember, if you have a story to tell, reach out to me at sort of surepodmail.com of course. I'd love to hear from you later days.