My name is Dr. Albert Bramonte. I am a talent agent in New York. I've been doing that for 21 years. I represent actors, films and theater, commercial, print and voiceover. I have been really blessed and exciting to be able to work with so many talented actors over the years. I've also been a college professor for 22 years now and I teach at a community college. I teach basic introductory psychology classes and really enjoy it. I really enjoy it. Imparting knowledge and sharing knowledge, in a sense and really just being a important task for students. You know, that's, that's really exciting for me. So again, I thank you for having me on here.

Awesome. It is my pleasure to have you on. So let me, let me start with, you know, kind of perhaps the obvious. You are a talent agent and a professor. How do those things go together for you?

Well, so they, they are separate. I mean, I started off pretty much as wanting to be a clinical psychologist. That was like my goal. I wanted to be, you know, initially a clinical psychologist. And I've always wanted to teach. But even when I was in college and in high school, I always had an interest in the arts. I was in a drama club, as a theater club. I took some theater classes in college. So I really just enjoyed being around the theater environment. And so it wasn't until maybe two years after grad school that I kind of got reconnected back to my theater roots. My theater interest being, you know, I was working in New York City, you know, which is one of the capitals of the world for theater and show business. So I started going back into a little bit of film festivals and acting in films myself. I did a little acting here and there, but it wasn't, I really don't consider myself a professional. I wasn't really into it as much as I, you know, should have been. So that was sort of. But I digress. And what I was saying about the, the acting thing, what I'm trying to say was it really was a stepping stone for me to start to work with actors and realizing this is what I need to do. And so I decided I wanted to become an agent. I'd rather be an agent instead and, and represent actors. And that was 2004 and I, in some aspects I was able to combine both my passions because when I was going for a PhD in psychology, I did my dissertation on self sabotage and actors, self defeating behavior and performing artists. And that was sort of, you know, where that came in, in a sense. So that was my first really foray into kind of combining both worlds. And then later, after several years after my dissertation, I turned it into my book sense. So that's sort of like where I am today.

Okay, that's awesome. Now, as you kind of were going through, did you start an agency or do you work with an agency?

I started, I've always had my, I always owned. Now there was a part, There was a three year period from 2020 and 2023 where I partnered up with somebody, co owned an agency, but I've always been owning. I never worked for another agency. Now looking back, in hindsight, maybe I that would have might have benefited me more. So had I did work with an agency, I might have learned a bit rather than going directly into it. And that's what happened when I directly went into, you know, going directly into being a talent agent without really any type of learning curve.

What was the, the story there? Was it just that you wanted to start one and you got into it and Bob's your uncle, you were a talent agent or did you, was that part of your schooling or something like that?

No, I mean, like I said, the whole thing was kind of like my extracurricular interest in acting. And so that started with me just wanting to be an actor, you know, in a sense I realized again, it wasn't for me. You know, acting was not really for me. So however, again, being around actors was what was really exciting. And so that really helped me. You know, that experience led me down the path because I realized again, once I realized it wasn't for me, I realized I wanted, I wanted to love working with actors. And that's where that started in a sense.

Gotcha. So it was more you wanted to be around actors and that was a great way to do it.

Lovely.

So talent agent is pretty front, you know, front of the class kind of thing. College professor, definitely front of the class kind of thing. And coach generally a one on one kind of thing. I'm a coach myself, so, you know, generally one on one, but definitely can be classes, things like that. But what led you to want to be there? Are you naturally an extrovert or did it just feel like you had to, to get into the right spaces?

Well, I mean, to be an actor, it's what's interesting. A lot of actors and artists are surprisingly introverted by nature. Even though it might not seem that way, it might seem almost like counterproductive, but a lot of them are. Now Even to work as an agent, you know, we're working behind the scenes, so we don't necessarily have to Be extroverted, you know, and, and for me, I would consider myself in the middle. You know, really depends upon the context, the situation. Now if I'm in an element where I, I'm really comfortable with the people that are around me, then yes, I will be, you know, ex extroverted. But if I'm in a totally unfamiliar situation and I don't know anybody, I, I may, you know, kind of shut down almost to a point where I just, you know, I like to kind of be alone and, or sometimes like even with large crowds, there's only so much I can take.

Yeah, I absolutely see that in a lot of actors. But I mean, there was a time when, you know, everybody was Jane Fonda, everybody wanted to be out in front. They wanted to sing, dance, act and do all the things, all the triple threats. And now I think as we see a lot more niche acting styles, we're starting to see a lot lower key people enter the genre and not try to be Martin Short. They can be Daniel Day Lewis. And it's funny you mentioned and a lot of these people being inherently introverted, but yourself being kind of in the middle. I read a work by Susan Cain, it was called Quiet and she is this you like. Okay, so she mentions the idea of an ambivert. She doesn't go into detail, but she does describe that there is the unicorn person who can feel comfortable in either place. And I found that as I talk to people, I mean, we're pretty far into, or I'm pretty far into interviewing people for podcast. Most people I talk to feel that exact way that they are occasional extroverts or an ambivert. Is that how you would describe yourself? Occasionally extrovert or occasionally introvert?

Yeah, I would say occasionally, depending on both. That. I don't know if I would say an ambivert, but I would say definitely, like if people ask, I'll be a good time. It depends on the situation. It depends on the environment in the situation.

Yeah. So as is kind of the crux of the podcast, would you say that any of these have been. Because I see, of course, you know, your, your PhD. At one point you were a PhD candidate, which is a nerve wracking place to be in.

Oh yeah, yeah.

You and, and talent agent, you were an actor where you, you had to be in audition rooms, which is almost as nerve wracking for many. Was there a time in these different disciplines where you felt like you didn't belong in the room?

Absolutely. And you know, that's what we kind of call imposter syndrome in a sense where you feel you don't deserve, you're not deserving of it, or you just don't feel that, you feel like find out that you're really not that good. And that's what we really call, that's what we refer to as imposter syndrome.

I. And it's so rare that I get to speak to an actual psychologist about these things. I just got my pop science and my hope that people will see that no one was made in a lab.

But yeah, definitely, yeah.

But as, as you know, from your perspective, where would you say your imposter syndrome, when it pops up, kind of comes from?

I mean, for me, again, I was just more of that, you know, kind of like really low self esteem, you know, initially in the beginning. And one of the things I struggled a lot with was people pleasing and trying to get at that. You know, when I was younger, my younger self was so convinced that he needed everyone to like, like him. And obviously we know that's very mistaken now.

And so much of life is figuring out how to undo the person we grew ourselves to be. And I'm finding that out more and more the more people I talk to. And I found it very interesting. One of the early things you said was just something as simple as perhaps repeated over and over to, you know, really cement that neural pathway to say you're a handful. And it, and that's a thing that many parents, probably most parents would say is innocuous. They're not, they're not saying that you're a bad kid, they're saying you're a handful, but we're internalizing that. No kid looks at their parent and says, wow, they're being a jerk today. What they say is, there must be something wrong with me that I'm being treated this way in the audition room. So many people feel very, very anxious even when the person on the other side of the table is rooting for you. So have you, have you seen that happen either in your life or just the psychological fact?

The one, the, a lot of times people may not even know where the source of thoughts are. It's like, man, I'm not, I'm not equipped to do this. Well, since who? And they can't tell you. He said that. And, and that's where you can start to challenge it, to start to dismantle these beliefs, to say, well, you say that you're not equipped to do this, you're not capable of doing this. Who told you that? And you could Often tell right off the bat. It's imagine when they, when they can't answer you that question, because nobody said that, but your brain is telling you that. Right?

And with no good reason.

Right, absolutely.

That is so powerful. And I, I love that, that understanding of the idea. So let's, let's, let's make it a little more personal then. So for you, what do you wish? When, when. Maybe when it, when it came up once upon a time, maybe you've, you've gotten past it. But what do you wish someone had told you about imposter syndrome when it was really tough for you?

Well, number one, I didn't know what imposter syndrome was when I was going through it. You know, this is back when I was younger myself. So I would say the first thing to do is education, explain what's going on and normalize it. Express that this is a normal process we'll go through. And then the one thing you always want to do is keep a tab of all your success and all your victories, in a sense. And you can then point it out to someone, say, my, well, look, you achieved this and this and this. You're not a failure, you know, because you achieved a lot already.

Oh, my goodness. That's such a good idea.

Well, yeah, and that's the whole thing. It's like really just start taking stock of your achievements. I mean, it's the first thing. It's the first step.

Oh, that's lovely. So then if someone listening, and this is kind of a little retooling of a question that I ask a whole lot, but I think this is a better way to ask it today with such an audience as yourself. If someone listening feels like a fraud today, is that the first step they can do to challenge that belief, or is there something they should do first?

Well, the first thing is to acknowledge a belief. And then to challenge a belief, in order to effectively challenge it, you have to come up with the list of achievements first and a list of things you've done right. And then you start looking at. There's kind of three things that we do when we go into these loop patterns, dysfunctional patterns. We distort, general, generalize, and delete. So we distort. We blow things out of proportion. But, you know, that's where distortion comes in. We generalize and say, you know, it's everything. You know, you fail one test, all of a sudden now you're just a complete failure and everything. And then we delete, you know, the important information, the achievements, so, you know, the first thing we need to do is bring the achievements. And now if there's a legitimate chance to grow, we can say, okay, now just maybe take some classes in this or take a course on this, or get some training in this area so that you become proficient in areas, especially if you notice that through this entire process that there are skills that you may be lacking. Okay, now develop a plan so to really master those skills.

So in, in response to this imposter syndrome, we get that tally of successes so that we can look at this realistically. And then we educate ourselves to normalize the behavior and understand that we haven't been a failure beyond what it is to be human.

Right, Exactly. That's part of the thing about embracing failure is also important. So one thing I often say is there's no such thing as failure on feedback. And every time we do something, even if it doesn't go the way you want to, we learn something from it. So I often say it's like, well, now failure does not mean the, the opposite of test. That actually is a stepping stone. Because now you know what now to do what one thing not to do the next time you set it to the goal, not say you make the mistake again, now you know two things not to do. Eventually you're going to get everything correct and, and definitely be, be successful. So there's no such thing as failure, only feedback. So what did you learn from this experience? What did you learn from this failure?

That is so beautiful. I love that. And, and although, so, you know, I've heard it said before, I've never heard it said quite like that. And I think there's, there's certainly something to that speaking to someone who teaches this stuff. But I think so many people need to learn the concept of embracing failure and looking at it as a tool and not a weapon to hurt themselves.

And it's not a weapon, it's a tool. It's really a tool in our favor. We just have to learn how to use it. And that's why again, by taking it and looking at, you know, like I said, embracing failure is as a stepping stone to success.

That's beautiful. So, I mean, one, I want to give you a chance here to mention anything you haven't gotten a chance to.

First of all, I thank you again for having me on. I would definitely encourage you to check out my book, Rise above the Script Confronting Self Mastering Self Sabotage for Performing Artists. Even though the title, the word performing artist is in the title, you can get a lot of benefit from the book. With, you know, regardless of any profession you're in. It's available on Amazon, Kindle and audiobook, so I would encourage you to check that out. Secondly, I am working on my own podcast at some point, which is going to call Mental Refirl, and also developing a program, you know, about like, really becoming your best self. So you can go to my website, Albert for Monte.com and keep in touch. You can also find me on LinkedIn and Instagram and I'd love to continue the conversation and interact with you.

Stupendous. Well, it has been a distinct pleasure, of course. You know, never, never hesitate to reach out. If you have questions about starting your podcast or, or anything like that, I am here and I'm more than happy to help.

I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

All right, have a great night. Wow. How about that? What a great conversation with Dr. Albert Bramante. I thoroughly enjoyed this one. As you may have seen, there were so many twists and turns. It was so fun. One thing I really want to talk about is the list of things he said at the end there. So when we have an issue with imposter syndrome or we have an issue with self doubt, first step to come up with a list of things you've done right. And yeah, it seems so simple. But the greatest antidote, and I think this is from Alex Hormozi, I heard it somewhere. The greatest antidote to self doubt and imposter syndrome is to get evidence that you can do it, that you have done it. And then you can always refer back to those things. Because when we have a possibly issue of things kind of going the wrong way or not going our way, what do we do? Just like Dr. Bramante said, we distort, we generalize, and then we delete so that it looks worse and worse and worse every time we think about it. And then to repair it, we list those successes, we educate ourselves, normalize the behavior, normalize failure. We're not a failure beyond what is what it is to be human. Understand that failure is a stepping stone. All of it is. It's. It's not even really failure. It's feedback. Man, such a fun episode. Thanks so much for tuning in. I had a blast. I hope you had some sort of fun. But before we go, if you have a story of imposter syndrome or self doubt, shoot me an [email protected] I can't wait to hear from you. Well, that's it for me today. Later days.

Sam Sa.